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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 27, 2022 7:50:52 GMT
It was released yesterday. I didn't notice because it doesn't have a single reply at TalkChess yet! Less than 200 views.
I wouldn't label "about" 17 Elo points " a significant improvement over the last release". They had to play 30,000 direct games just to be able to make the statement.
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Post by matejst on Apr 27, 2022 10:20:52 GMT
I hoped "professionals" have understood that they needed a well rounded project -- like Hiarcs -- to survive. What's selling, IMHO, is an intuitive GUI, a phone app, well designed bots/levels, the ability to play online...
The Komodo team could have adapted -- let's say -- SCIDB or José, and to have a really good product. Let's see now: from K11 to K14, the progress was 20 Elos; from KD 2 to KD 3 the progress is 50 Elos. They were lucky for so many people having money to throw through the windows to support them. For the money, I can bundle Aquarium, CA, CPT, and work seriously on my chess and play online. They also missed the phone market, which is growing from year to year.
I think that a seller can ask what ever money he wants for his product, but as a buyer, I will try to get some value for this money.
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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 27, 2022 11:02:53 GMT
Most people buy engines just by looking at their strength. As long as Komodo remains a close 2nd behind SF, many will have it just for the "value" of a second opinion. To really improve your play, you don't need to spend a single cent. BSG or Arena are enough to play against. Scid is enough to manage DBs. SF in Scid or Arena is enough to analyze. Polyglot is enough for opening books. You have free Nalimov TBs to pair with old Houdini 1.5a and access DTM information, for an optimal sparring partner to practice basic endings against. You have Syzygy up to 7 men for more complex endgame analysis. Someone tell me, in what particular area of your human preparation, do you need a commercial program? |
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Post by matejst on Apr 27, 2022 12:06:45 GMT
Most people buy engines just by looking at their strength. As long as Komodo remains a close 2nd behind SF, many will have it just for the "value" of a second opinion. To really improve your play, you don't need to spend a single cent. BSG or Arena are enough to play against. Scid is enough to manage DBs. SF in Scid or Arena is enough to analyze. Polyglot is enough for opening books. You have free Nalimov TBs to pair with old Houdini 1.5 and access DTM information, for an optimal sparring partner to practice basic endings against. You have Syzygy up to 7 men for more complex endgame analysis. Someone tell me, in what particular area of you human preparation, do you need a program that's not freely available? I completely agree. I bought Aquarium because it was a bargain (20 euros), and I guess I will perhaps buy CA but it is not certain. Otherwise, I mostly use the old CPT for openings, LucasChess for games, tactical training, even endgame training. I bought 20 years ago some Convekta training software that still works and there is value in these products (Total Chess training II), but I could do without them. I liked ChessX, but it has become clunky, while SCIDvsPC is great, and the latest SCID too.
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Post by matejst on Apr 27, 2022 12:20:20 GMT
Then, what's the point with the "subscription". I see that Dragon 2.6 is sold separately from Dragon 2.0 and Dragon 1.0. I don't remember a post on CCC about updates of Dragon 1, 2, and there was only one from 2.5 to 2.6 (there was also a bug, fixed in 2.61, which is clear from the Komodochess site). While I am very thankful that Larry and Cie offer their older engines for free (anyway, they have only some value for nerds like me), I really don't understand their marketing strategy.
But they probably have some buyers, so, I guess they can do what they do.
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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 27, 2022 13:00:04 GMT
I don't recall any update for Dragon 1, you can see at the bottom of this page the updates for version 2 (just two, 2.5 and 2.6). The full number versions have nothing special, but are required to be distributed by CB according to their usual time-table. On the Komodo chess page, they will have the same price, and the subscription can be started with whatever version is the latest. The only sense for the subscription is to get all the releases in a given year for less than what it would cost to buy them individually, but the savings aren't that great. As you can see, this is the 4th Dragon engine since November 2020, a year and a half, so nowhere near the 3-5 releases per year they mention. In essence, you didn't miss any piece of information which might make you more easily understandable why people buy it. They buy because they're nerds. I've also bought a copy occasionally, although never used the subscription service. It made sense up to 5 years ago, when releases where in the numbers advertised, but as you can confer in the other thread dedicated to this subject, version 11.2 was the last one released in a short period of time. 11.3 came 230 days later and offered nothing at all. Subsequent releases remained just as flat and only the use of NNUE architecture showed progress again. It has allowed the engine to regain most of the terrain lost to SF and would be a good alternative if not for the price. Progress is slowing again, once the novelty faded, and releases are being spaced apart and offer decreased increments. My recommendation is still to buy the CB version in the next 25% sale, so you get a nice GUI for the same price as the standalone. |
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Post by Ozymandias on May 17, 2022 11:11:36 GMT
I'm a visionary. Komodo Dragon 3 from Chessbase just went online AND it's at 25% discount for the day!  |
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