|
Post by matejst on Apr 17, 2022 7:41:01 GMT
Ozy, I live in Kragujevac, 120km South of Belgrade, and I just came back from work in Kosovo & Metochia. I did not even know that there were protests in Belgrade. I saw on Spoutnik that there were demonstrations for Russia, motivated by the Serbian vote against Russia in the UN. From what I know, the EU threatened to close the Adriatic pipeline (there are also threats by Bulgaria to close the Turkish stream), and the government wisely concluded that we love Russia, but that we love our gasoline at 1,40 Euros a bit more.
To have a picture of Serbia: you have two cities full of "creative classes" (it's the term employed in Russia) -- Belgrade and Novi Sad. The rest is
|
|
|
Post by matejst on Apr 17, 2022 7:50:02 GMT
I don't know what I have done to send this message before finishing it...
So... These "creative classes" are pro Western, against Russia, etc. The rest of Serbia is on the opposite end of the political spectrum, more oriented to traditional values of our society. But our educational level has sharply fallen in the last 20 years, we don't control our informational space (all our newspapers and most tv stations were sold to foreigners), etc., so I am perplexed when I see that my students are anti-vaccines, anti-EU, etc. The political parties financed by the US, GB and Germany have lost miserably at the elections, and their results are worse from elections to elections. Nobody here, in the interior of Serbia, believes in a future in Europe any more.
|
|
|
Post by Ozymandias on Apr 17, 2022 10:53:08 GMT
Seriously, you guys should be more careful. If "they" think you can cause any real trouble, everything might just start anew for the younger generation. Elders would do well to let them know they're alone. Russia has many "European" countries in between to be of help, which means no help, of course.
|
|
|
Post by matejst on Apr 17, 2022 13:52:55 GMT
Ozy,
That's what our government tries to do. But, whatever you do, the result is the same. There is no mercy for the weak.
|
|
|
Post by Ozymandias on Apr 17, 2022 15:18:14 GMT
Speaking of which, these look "exactly" as all those suffering in the west, for whom countless tears are shed all over:
No mercy and no voice, just a lone reporter acting on his own.
|
|
|
Post by matejst on Apr 17, 2022 20:30:01 GMT
I've been following the work of Patrick Lancaster and Christelle Néant from the beginning, Ozy. From all the things I have seen so far, comparing it with what happened here thirty, twenty years ago, it is not a "foreign aggression", but a true civil war in Ukraine. Foreign "advisers", mercenaries, butchers just make things several magnitude worse.
|
|
|
Post by matejst on Apr 17, 2022 20:32:55 GMT
And so sorry I forgot: happy Easter, Ozy. Христос васкрсe!
|
|
|
Post by Ozymandias on Apr 17, 2022 21:52:50 GMT
They are the facilitators, without them it's hard to imagine anything at all would've happened. Not even the protests at Maidan. Same to Milos and you, although around here, it finishes tomorrow, so not much left. Edit matejst: about an article by Thierry Meyssan, from the site you posted in Ed's forum, this quote could've been mine: democratically governed peoples are responsible for the decisions taken for a long time by their leaders and maintained after alternations in power
|
|
|
Post by matejst on Apr 18, 2022 19:50:52 GMT
There are several of his books easily available -- I guess you know where. He has been translated in Spanish too. I think he is in relations with the services of the Syrian state, where he gets most of his insider's infos. And he is very well informed. Anyway, keep an eye on voltairenet.org, where Manlio Dinucci also publishes great analysis.
|
|
|
Post by matejst on Apr 22, 2022 13:54:18 GMT
I read several books right now -- from criminology, to history and geopolitics. But I obviously missed something in psychology. Especially in mass psychology. Arestovich' interview is just one among oh so many.
Is it our fault, us, in the education? Have we done enough for our students to understand the world? I doubt it. Could we have done better? I don't know. But we obviously failed our societies and our children.
|
|
|
Post by Ozymandias on Apr 22, 2022 15:37:21 GMT
I don't think it's a failure of the education system. I've often heard similar complains in reference to, for example, the failure of the Soviet Union to get its citizens away from religion. As soon as the government fell, everyone went back to their churches, as if those 70 years never happened. But the problem is with people. If you want to educate everyone, in the sense that they may become self determined persons with critical thinking capabilities, you're making two wrong assumptions: - That people actually want freedom.
- That they're something outside the collective.
That's why we're headed toward totalitarian democracies. Because that's what works, and the powers that be, trough trial and error, finally realized that much. You just need the illusion of freedom, which allows you to take away responsibility; something inherent to real freedom and independence, but really inconvenient for most. That's also why people also like (or liked) their religions so much. It's not for the fear of death, which was at their origin, but for the possibility to choose any particular system, that will allow them not to think for themselves. Once they act based on someone else's instead, they no longer have to endure consequences, the fault will always be someone else's. The other half of the equation is our gregarious nature. We exist in a group, and will try to fit in. Some will migrate to another group, be it by actual, physical migration, or simply by accepting some foreign culture, joining a cult... but very few will stand alone. Notice how you can find examples of both people migrating physically but still remaining in their original group, as well as those who won't ever move from where they were born, but completely adopting another group's culture. And with that we've reached the end of the road. With the rise of social media and neighboring technologies, globalization can finally happen locally. They even want you home for work. First the pandemic, now the need to cut on oil being wasted. Just stay home, be safe, interact with others over the phone and follow your cue (MSM/influencer). Don't think, we know you don't like it.
|
|
|
Post by matejst on Apr 22, 2022 17:03:35 GMT
Here, I would like to try to add just a few notes to your reflection, a reflection I find basically, empirically true.
1. The demasculinisation, matriarchalisation of the Western societies is a way to control dissent -- through Darwinian evolution, women are much more inclined to belong to a group, do like others, than men. Then, standing alone, by oneself requires courage -- and courage is linked with honor, name, memories. We are forced in a world without any of these.
2. In relation with courage -- aggressiveness has become free. Today, keyboard warriors can behave hysterically with impunity. Some forms of aggressive behaviour are tolerated by the organized society. When I was young, at school, insulting anybody would end with a fist fight (no knives then, hopefully). Today, one cannot even try to react (although, here, after several wars...) All of this institutionalizes several ways of retribution against individuals by groups.
Sorry, Ozy, my English has become awful with years, and I tire much faster than a few years ago. I hope I was clear enough with these few points. There is so much to say, but I can't finish a simple paragraph.
|
|
|
Post by Ozymandias on Apr 22, 2022 18:34:29 GMT
Don't worry, you're doing fine.
About your first point. General wisdom compels me to agree, but recent discoveries seem to indicate that Neolithic societies, as opposed to hunter-gatherer ones, saw the men staying where their lands happened to be. The women on the other hand, had less value when it came to protect then, so they became more itinerant. How much of this may actually be just to explain the plights of women and their "true" value, I don't know.
Yes, what's typically been called passive-aggressive behavior, which is now used by predominant groups to shut down conversations. As I outlined earlier, anonymity disincentives the categorical imperative, so people don't have to look at themselves very hard. This is the key point, IMO, because "honor" implies another form of peer-pressure (a masculine one). I'm actually against either of them.
|
|
|
Post by matejst on Apr 22, 2022 20:11:49 GMT
No, I don't do well, Ozy, because you're right: "honour" is about the "regard des autres", to quote Sartre. The Serbian word I had more in mind was чојство, "defending others from yourself", a word I usually translate by "noblesse", "humanité", "generosité", since I don't know a good translation neither in French, nor in English. I used "name" for what should have been the distinctive feature in the world of peers. Philosophy requires a precise lexicon, and I was quite far from any precision.
A small digression: when I work, I stay in KM for several days, and for a few years I was staying in an apartment in the small town nearby with an old professor of linguistics. But since we made an excellent "vruća" (caramelized sugar + hot water + plum brandy) in the long winter evenings, several colleagues from the chair of philosophyused to spend evenings with us -- you can imagine four or five slightly drunken philosophers debating for hours... And then, we ate well too.
|
|
|
Post by Ozymandias on Apr 22, 2022 21:40:34 GMT
I can digress, too. But at the same time, I'll move the last few posts to the other thread, as they have little to no correlation with this one's theme.
As for my share of rambling. I don't have to imagine a bunch of philosophers half drunk, debating or pontificating (something we tend to do), I only need to remember. Yes, memories. I'm only 52, but I feel much older because of what Ortega coined as "my circumstance". Also, I moved years ago to a very different part of Spain, and I'm still an outsider here, so my memories are older than they should, but I still recall some moments, like me describing to someone a particular argument as "irrefutable", only to have someone else popping in and saying "if it's irrefutable, it's not an argument". Philosophers, you know.
|
|